| Level | Item |
| Ref No | AUD/002/OHP 116 |
| Title | Boyle, Mary - Recording |
| Site | London |
| Date | 16 February 2015 |
| Extent | 1-CDR |
| Description | CDR sound recording of an interview with Professor Mary Boyle, FBPsS, FRSM,FRSA, Emeritus Professor, School of Psychology, The University of East London for the British Psychological Society's Oral History Project.
The interview was conducted by Dr Lorraine Ludman in February 2015.
The following summary by Dr Lorraine Ludman is by way of introduction to the full recording held at the British Psychological Society's History of Psychology Centre, London.
Interviewee: Professor Mary Boyle (MB)
Interviewer: Lorraine Ludman (LL).
LL asks MB when her interest in psychology first started-educated in Scotland; major interest history and science; sister training as teacher spoke to her about psychology; light bulb moment: psychology would provide a combination of science and people.
1971: MB went to Strathclyde University in Scotland to read Psychology; course was marvelous gave her an extraordinary grounding in Psychology;
LL asks MB about 'inspirational' teachers. Head of Department (dept) ; Gustav Jahoda cross-cultural psychologist; Rudolph Schaffer, child developmental psychologist; Margaret Clark Educational psychologist.
LL asks MB about initial fields of interest in Psychology;
MB: clinical from the beginning; had lectures from specialists in the dept-Peter Britton (clinical psychologist in Newcastle).
LL asks about MB's work as research assistant (after she graduated)-Teenagers and drinking in Glasgow part of a very large project (Yahoda) How children's attitudes to alcohol developed and changed from 7 to 18 years
MB moved to Liverpool University for BPhil in Clinical Psychology; LL asks about any particular influences : Ralph Herrington; Phil Lane …doctor patient communication; Dissertation: effects on positive/negative feedback on cognitive performance (mild to moderately handicapped young people).
LL asks MB to talk about her work as a clinical psychologist at Lancaster Moor Hospital from 1974.
MB: most interesting- time learnt about relationship between Psychology and psychiatry; exciting time for psychologist…explains this; beginnings of Behaviour Therapy and the application of learning theory; dept very well resourced; able to apply the research to problems such as phobias and sexual problems which she specialized in. Difficult to make headway with schizophrenic patients ; Psychologists not expected to do anything-discusses this; beginnings of training nurses as therapist; makes her decision to go into teaching/research rather than full time clinical work.
LL asks how this came about-MB explains; missed academic world; also a in-service training course was set up and she was the academic tutor ..trying to organize academic component - 4 students at first.
LL asks MB about subject of her PhD (end of 1980s after 10 years as clinical psychologists)-A coming together of her misgivings of the concepts of schizophrenia. Explains this: reading book (revisionist history) on history of the development of the asylum system in Britain showed her she was on the right tract. PhD Title: Schizophrenia a scientific delusion. Title given to her by Richard Hallam; supervisors Peter Slade; John Radford (at NE London Polytechnic) LL asks MB for author of book-Andrew Scull.
LL: You progressed from your appointment as Lecturer at North East London Polytechnic in 1978, to heading the department as Professor of Clinical Psychology in 1997;
MB: not head of department- Personal Chair: head of clinical psychology course ; Heads of department 1st: Ben Reich; 2nd Graham Davis; when she left David Rose. She retired 2007.
LL asks MB to talk about your work at UEL and the main focus of MB's particular interests--the working environment, and relationships with other members of staff;
MB talks about difficulties for women-was a struggle; changed positively came after appointment of in early 1990s of new Vice-Chancellor - Michel Frank Gould. [25:00]
She was able to build up a clinical psychology course- radical in its criticisms of psychiatry and determination to build a truly psychosocial model of psychological problems, not a medical model; built up very slowly; had external but not internal opposition.
[26:00] LL asks if her work on schizophrenia led her to emphasis the need for a psychosocial rather than medical model ....applying psychological ideas to clinical problems without any need for diagnoses.
LL asks if there was any opposition to this? MB not in dept. [27:15] because they felt this was downgrading for example psychological testing.. but in the end other courses started to imitate it.
[27:48] LL asks if MB's 1st book which was on schizophrenia-MB her PhD published in 1990.
LL: How was that received?
MB: actually it was extraordinary…went down like a storm…got piles of correspondence all of it positive …still going on…quite influential. Also opened her up to a lot of flack…supervisor warned her she would not get a job in the NHS if she published it. Opposition from psychiatrists. Book reviewed in BJCP by a psychiatrist ..viciously critical about it. She felt it was unfair… a travesty. Psychologists wrote letters to editor which led to her being given right to reply.
LL: was this a time when psychiatrists were against that psychologists were impinging on their area of expertise ? Yes, … feeling attacked and feeling vulnerable...
LL: In 1994 you became Head of the Doctoral Programme in Clinical Psychology at UEL.
MB: I was already head of Masters programme- developed doctorate programme out of that
LL asks MB about her views on the Clinical Psychology Doctorate as opposed to conventional scientific PhD theses?-MB explains how and why clinical psychology doctorate developed- a professional doctorate, a different kind of animal. LL asks whether MB was involved in the development of this doctorate…yes…early 1990s; 1st doctorate was at University of Bangor .
[36.25] LL: asks about the role professional bodies played in MB's professional life.
LL remarks that MB has been, and continues to be, a very active committee member of the BPS having become involved early in her career.
MB: first involvement was as joint editor of BPS Bulletin; 1982 with Ray Bull emeritus professor of forensic psychology;
MB: loved this work…explains why; they were also involved in the transition to the Psychologist; meant she had to sit on other committees and Council; met Halla Beloff (worked in Edinburgh): she chaired Council…was a role model for MB. Mushroomed-help set up parliamentary group-way to forge link with parliamentarians-LL asks why she got involved..
MB: the idea was to bring psychological research to the notice of policy makers. Explains further…BPS had real problems with communication…BPS then appointed communications officer…talks about this… tied in with her wish to promote scientific and researched based psychological models rather than medical models
LL asks if there are any other aspects of BPS MB wants to talk about: MB apart from clinical psychology training committee MB was on, and chaired, the committee which organized accreditation visits and reports; this led to an increase in standards; when the Psychologist started there was a policy committee…she learnt a great deal about publishing….
LL asks MB about her views on academic publishing and the way its changed;
MB: thinks it has become less multi disciplinary …concerned about what modules books can be sold for …become more tick box; worried that clinical psychology has become much more practice orientated and much less theory and reflection ..more about how do I do, than think about it..medicalization has crept back again…eg treating the ADAH child … much less how can we think about these problems differently.
[46:53]LL: you are a Fellow of the BPS and, in 2000, in recognition of the significant impact you have made on knowledge and practice in British clinical psychology, the BPS Division of Clinical Psychology awarded you the Monte Shapiro Award for Eminence in Clinical Psychology-MB Stunned ..but pleased and gratified
LL: publications- books on schizophrenia and on abortion, reflect your concern with the relationship between psychological theory and public policy;
MB: Very much so LL for example the Criminal Justice system (CJS) and sexual inequality.
MB: CJS drawn into this ..how influential psychology can be. Late 1980s early 1990s. LL: asks about abortion and sexual inequality:
MB parliamentary debates on abortion - talking about women and abortion and mental health law- way Psychology dealt with abortion always looking for negative effects MB got exasperated by Psychologists and psychiatrists search for negative effects of abortion; huge intellectual and emotion journey for her. -many interesting points on these subjects up to [56:50]
[57:00] LL asks about family life as related to MB as a psychologist? MB talks about her upbringing and how this influenced her work.
[59:43] LL asks MB re still continuing with research after retirement 2007 -Alternatives to psychiatric diagnosis working with group.
[1:02:18] LL asks MB about attending and memories of conferences. MB talks about differences between conferences in UK and USA + her keynote speech at BPS conference
2014.
LL asks about MB work on intersex conditions-MB talks about this and her clinical research in this area.
[1:10:15] LL asks MB about possible predictions for the future clinical psychology and/or psychology in general? MB: yes at a very difficult/ a watershed/ questions whether it has the strength to become intellectually independent of psychiatry/ a huge constant struggle-talks about this at length.
[1:15:49] LL asks MB if she feels that Psychology in general has moved to far to the neurosciences-yes definitely- talks about this at length. [1:18:20]
LL asks how psychiatry feels about this, MB feels strongly about this. [1:19:50]
LL asks MB what she thinks about the huge numbers studying Psychology:
MB responds
[1:22:18] LL asks MB anything else she wishes to say:
MB Clinical Psychology has given her a quite wonderful career
Recording ends.
Total running time: c 83mins |
| RunTime | c 83 minutes |
| Format | Digital Disk |
| Notes | The History of Psychology Centre is committed to creating an inclusive environment for all our users. Be aware that our catalogue contains historic terminology relating to mental health which could be considered offensive. The terminology exists within the original record and has been retained to inform users on viewpoints at the time. It in no way reflects the attitudes of the cataloguers or the British Psychological Society. |
| Language | English |
| RelatedRecord | PHO/001/03/01/08/02 |
| AccessConditions | Authorised Users. View by Appointment. |
| AccessStatus | Open |
| Location | 13: BPS History of Psychology Centre, London |
| Term | Behaviour |
| Clinical psychology |
| Social behaviour |
| Equal Opportunity |
| Government Policy |
| Copyright | Subject to the condition of the original, copies may be supplied for private research use only on receipt of a signed undertaking to comply with current copyright legislation. Permission to make any published use of material from the collection must be sought in advance from the Head of the History of Psychology Centre and Archives and, where appropriate, from the copyright owner. Where possible, assistance will be given in identifying copyright owners, but responsibility for ensuring copyright clearance rests with the user of the material |
| Rules | Description compiled in line with the following: ISAD (G) General International Standard Archival Description MAD3 Third Edition 2000 |
| ArchNote | Compiled by Mike Maskill BPS Archivist for the History of Psychology Centre.
Summary by Dr Lorraine Ludman. |
Show related Persons records.
Persons
| Code | PersonName | Dates |
| BPS/GB/274 | Boyle; Mary Elizabeth (1949-); Professor; FBPsS, FRSM,FRSA, | 1949- |
| BPS/GB/180 | Beloff; Halla (1930-); Professor; FBPsS, CPsychol, AcSS, HonMBPsS | 1930- |
| BPS/GB/150 | Jahoda; Gustav (1920-2016); Professor; FRSE, FBA | 1920-2016 |